Zachary James: Breaking Boundaries in Opera and Musical Theatre (S02E01)

Zachary James: Breaking Boundaries in Opera and Musical Theatre (S02E01)

Zachary James: Breaking Boundaries in Opera and Musical Theatre (S02E01)

Inside the Mind of Zachary James: Broadway Star and Opera Maestro

In the latest episode of the Five Minute Call we delve into the fascinating world of Zachary James, an acclaimed performer gracing both Broadway and opera stages. From starring in legendary theatre productions such as "The Addams Family" and "South Pacific" to taking on iconic roles in contemporary operas, Zachary shares a treasure trove of stories and insights on his journey. Transitioning seamlessly between genres, his narrative unfolds the struggles and triumphs of creating unique interpretations of beloved characters like Hades in "Hadestown."

Through candid discussions, Zachary touches on his formative years growing up in Spring Hill, Florida, where his passion for the arts first ignited amidst societal expectations and personal insecurities. His pivotal high school experience auditioning for a musical reveals not just the discovery of his prowess in singing and acting but also the transformative power of performing arts. This revelation paved the way for his illustrious career. Zachary also provides a refreshing look at his creative process, exploring the importance of flexibility, continual learning, and the magical resonance that live theatre can evoke in both audience and performer.

A significant part of the conversation centers on Zachary's impeccable stage presence and his ritualistic pre-show routines, which he describes as a blend of mindfulness and spirituality. His approach of inviting the spirits of past performers to join him on stage exemplifies his respect for the rich history and sanctity of theatre spaces. For anyone seeking to understand the depths of an artist’s journey or to glean inspiration from a master of his craft, this episode offers an intimate glimpse into Zachary James’s world, filled with dedication, reverence, and an indefatigable pursuit of artistic expression.


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Episode Transcript:

[00:00:00] Zachary: There's always that voice of like, oh, you know, Hadestown, Patrick Page, you know, those are [00:00:05] huge shoes. And I do it very, very differently, knowing what the fans expect and then doing something really [00:00:10] different. It was scary. And I was just like, ah, what if I'm not the one for this? What if this is [00:00:15] like a terrible mistake?

[00:00:18] Oren: In this episode, we're talking to [00:00:20] Mr. Hades himself, Zachary James. Zachary has appeared in Broadway productions, [00:00:25] including The Addams Family, South Pacific, and Coram Boy.

[00:00:28] Claire: And has originated [00:00:30] roles in contemporary operas such as Arcanartan and The Black Cloak.

[00:00:33] Zachary: And I went backstage, I was [00:00:35] weeping afterwards, and just everyone I saw in the hall, I was like, this is amazing.

[00:00:39] Zachary: There [00:00:40] were just so many moments in that show where the text coming out of my mouth was so just like, oh god, [00:00:45] life. I do a little prayer. Every show, help us all to [00:00:50] find each other and open our hearts and receive the hearts of the audience. If [00:00:55] everyone is equal in the collaborative process, it's, it's really can be quite magical to [00:01:00] see what is assembled, you know, between you.

[00:01:03] Zachary: That can be really cool. [00:01:05]

[00:01:06] Oren: Hello and welcome to The 5 Minute Call, the podcast that takes a deep dive [00:01:10] into the stories of the people that make theatre happen. In this episode we're talking to Mr. [00:01:15] Hades himself, Zachary James.

[00:01:17] Claire: Zachary has had an incredible career, spanning [00:01:20] musical theatre, opera, TV and film.

[00:01:22] Oren: Zachary has appeared in Broadway productions [00:01:25] including The Addams Family, South Pacific and Coram Boy.

[00:01:28] Claire: And has originated [00:01:30] roles in contemporary operas such as Arkanatan and The Black Cloak.

[00:01:33] Oren: He was named Broadway [00:01:35] World's Vocalist and Performer of the Decade and is currently starring as Hades in the [00:01:40] West End's Hadestown.

[00:01:41] Oren: Thank you so much for being here. We are very excited to have this chat [00:01:45] today. And so we always start by saying, or by asking rather, how [00:01:50] you found your way into theatre. What's your inception [00:01:55] story? Oh, well,

[00:01:57] Zachary: um, I actually just told this story this weekend because [00:02:00] my theatre teacher in high school is retiring after 30 years.

[00:02:03] Zachary: Um, so I, I made a, [00:02:05] little speech for him and sent it along for his celebration, um, but it was kind of [00:02:10] a, a very roundabout way in that, um, so I grew up in Spring [00:02:15] Hill, Florida, which is kind of, uh, middle of central Florida, the woods, [00:02:20] not a lot going on. And, um, at the time, In school, you know, they do [00:02:25] musicals, right?

[00:02:25] Zachary: And the boys never audition, because it's not cool. Um, at least [00:02:30] at that time, in the late 90s. And, uh, so the theater and chorus teacher [00:02:35] was just standing around and asking every boy who walked by in the hallway to audition for the musical. And [00:02:40] I said, oh, I don't sing. And he said, show up after school and sing Happy Birthday for me.

[00:02:43] Zachary: So I thought about it, [00:02:45] and I was like, uh And I found myself singing. singing Happy Birthday, and [00:02:50] then I got cast as Roger in Grease, and I couldn't sing, I couldn't act, couldn't [00:02:55] dance, didn't know what I was doing, but there was something about being on stage that just [00:03:00] was very intoxicating, and it was the first time that I [00:03:05] felt kind of not shy and [00:03:10] insecure, and like I wanted to hide, it was sort of like I got to hide behind a [00:03:15] character, and um, people Seemed to like it and [00:03:20] it was just a lot of fun And so I thought well, this is something I want to do, [00:03:25] but I don't know how and i'm very bad at it So what what do we do about that?

[00:03:29] Zachary: [00:03:30] So, um, but I I did grow up in a musical family My dad is a professional musician and I was raised [00:03:35] on classical piano So I had a musical background and I was used to performing on [00:03:40] piano like through the piano, which is much safer Um because it's it's [00:03:45] not your own You you know, heart and soul as much that you're revealing to a bunch of [00:03:50] strangers.

[00:03:50] Zachary: Um, so there was a bit of the, um, performance aspect that I was [00:03:55] comfortable with as far as being on stage in front of people, but singing was terrifying [00:04:00] and I was, I just couldn't really wrap my brain [00:04:05] around how to sound how I wanted to sound. Um, my voice [00:04:10] was in a very strange place and I had no idea that I'd be coming, uh, baritone, [00:04:15] bass, bass, baritone, whatever, you know, I, I identify as day to day.

[00:04:19] Zachary: Um, at [00:04:20] that time. I was singing tenor in chorus and I had a really nice [00:04:25] falsetto and I was using that and it was just about to change and the [00:04:30] bottom was going to fall out from underneath me and so it was uh yeah it was [00:04:35] really difficult vocally just I didn't understand how to use my voice and it was [00:04:40] betraying me in front of people cracking and all these things that you know it was [00:04:45] humiliating but somehow I thought I'll just keep going.

[00:04:49] Claire: Which is [00:04:50] incredible. So, yeah, you know, because at that age to be experiencing those [00:04:55] moments of embarrassment and still go, yeah, this is still got something about it. Yeah, I never

[00:04:59] Zachary: really [00:05:00] thought about that. But yeah, it is kind of like, why didn't I run away? Yeah, screaming? Yeah. [00:05:05] Yeah, but I loved acting. I really did.

[00:05:08] Zachary: It was and I [00:05:10] became kind of a research nerd right away. I went on to do Christmas Carol a couple [00:05:15] times in high school and Once Upon a Mattress, Taming of the Shrew. few other [00:05:20] things, but I would always research everything. I'd go to the library and take out VHS [00:05:25] tapes, which we used to watch in the late 90s of, you know, everything on the topic of the show [00:05:30] we were doing, every version of A Christmas Carol.

[00:05:32] Zachary: And I was always just looking for [00:05:35] clues on how to bring things to life and, you know, make [00:05:40] interesting characters. And I was always going and shopping for my own costumes and, you know, vintage [00:05:45] stores and such. And I really enjoyed it. I really love that. I think there's

[00:05:48] Oren: something [00:05:50] Inherently creative about you That it seems [00:05:55] like it formed very early on which is really nice.

[00:05:58] Zachary: Yeah That would be a [00:06:00] lifelong thing. Probably. Yeah the creativity. There was always some weird thing. I was always making things [00:06:05] and music was always there and You know, and I, I say I started [00:06:10] theater late because, you know, as I just told you, it was, I think I was a sophomore in high school when I [00:06:15] first did theater, but I was always making characters and wearing costumes and putting [00:06:20] on makeup in private and as a young, young child or taking my [00:06:25] brother out in the backyard and having him shoot me with a water gun over and over again so I could [00:06:30] practice dying, things like that, you know, so there was something there, you know, And I remember [00:06:35] saying, I think I was five, and I said I want to be an actor and moved to New York where I had never been [00:06:40] and I didn't really know where that idea came from and, you [00:06:45] know, but Someone asked me like, what do you want to be when you grow up?

[00:06:47] Zachary: And I was like, I'm gonna be an actor and move to New [00:06:50] York and they said, well, don't do that. That's really unrealistic [00:06:55] And I kind of, it happened. Wow,

[00:06:56] Claire: way to squash a full five year old's dreams.

[00:06:59] Zachary: It was good for me [00:07:00] though, because I kind of have a history of people saying no don't do that and then I do it Okay, you know, [00:07:05] so yeah That's, yeah.

[00:07:08] Zachary: Do you like playing against the grain? I do. [00:07:10] I do. Yeah. If you tell me I can't do something, I'm like, I must do it.

[00:07:13] Claire: Yeah. I have a kid like [00:07:15] that. Yeah. . . Yeah.

[00:07:18] Oren: Have you, have you ever [00:07:20] used your, your water gun dying acting skills? Yes. Yes.

[00:07:24] Zachary: [00:07:25] Uh, I've, I've actually very recently, uh, I was just doing a film last week. I got shot to [00:07:30] death.

[00:07:30] Zachary: And the week prior, another film where I got shot to death. So, yeah, there you go. [00:07:35] There you go. It came in very useful. Exactly. Yeah, and actually, I love dying. It's one of my favorite things. And [00:07:40] figuring out the choreography, um, to safely die and make it look, you know, [00:07:45] beautiful. Uh, it's a lot of fun.

[00:07:47] Oren: That is, I'm, I'm not sure I've ever heard [00:07:50] that perspective before.

[00:07:51] Oren: I actually think that's, that's quite special. Cause I, I mean, I, [00:07:55] I don't know that many people would ever Consider it in in that way. It's [00:08:00] just sort of okay Fall over. Yeah.

[00:08:02] Zachary: Well, it's it's a [00:08:05] You really have to sell it, you know The audience really has to kind of like gasp and think [00:08:10] it's and get lost in that suspension Um, so I the hardest death i've ever done was actually in [00:08:15] billy bud the benjamin britton opera And I was playing john claggert and he gets punched [00:08:20] in the head and suddenly dies And it can be quite comical You [00:08:25] Because it, it seems unrealistic.

[00:08:27] Zachary: I'm enormous and this, you know, young [00:08:30] guy much shorter than me is punching me in the head and I'm supposed to die. So, it was [00:08:35] so fun to figure out how to make that realistic and kind of like get the research [00:08:40] behind it of like what would cause this. Um, phenomenon and, and then [00:08:45] breaking it down choreographically.

[00:08:47] Zachary: And I remember I was, it was, uh, [00:08:50] in my, in my housing for the gig. And I was just rehearsing this death, like over and [00:08:55] over again, all night and figuring it out. And I brought it back in the next day to show them and they were like, Oh, that's [00:09:00] it, that's it, you know? So, and then every time the audience would like gasp and [00:09:05] it was fabulous.

[00:09:06] Claire: That's the reaction you're looking for. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. [00:09:10] So you you mentioned in passing that you were in other [00:09:15] parts of your life trying not to be seen oh, yeah for

[00:09:17] Zachary: sure Yeah, yeah [00:09:20]

[00:09:20] Claire: Does that stay with you?

[00:09:24] Zachary: It's [00:09:25] something that is always there that[00:09:30]

[00:09:32] Zachary: shyness, timidness, um, Not wanting [00:09:35] to take up too much space things like that. I think that come with being a larger person also [00:09:40] And I was always so much taller than everyone else as a kid and and everyone was always [00:09:45] commenting on it So yeah, I didn't I didn't want to be seen I said can we talk about anything else?

[00:09:49] Zachary: but my height [00:09:50] and there were a million nicknames for me at school and Um, so yeah, it was it [00:09:55] was not fun. I think I was really You in my late 20s before [00:10:00] I really like stepped into this body and was like, this is, this is what we have to work [00:10:05] with. Like, it's time to own it and just walk forward with this.

[00:10:08] Zachary: And, um, you know, through a [00:10:10] lot of work and a lot of work with great people, voice teachers and, um, [00:10:15] body work, uh, professionals. But yeah, it was, there was something [00:10:20] You know, that felt really icky about being, you know, [00:10:25] hearing people talk about my, my body all the time as a [00:10:30] kid.

[00:10:30] Background: Yeah.

[00:10:31] Zachary: And beyond that, I was just a very sensitive, [00:10:35] shy little boy playing classical piano and everyone else was playing soccer.

[00:10:39] Zachary: You know, [00:10:40] and I, I was, you know, doing piano competitions [00:10:45] and, and all these things that no one else was doing. And it [00:10:50] was, I, I was aware that it was very different.

[00:10:52] Claire: Yeah.

[00:10:53] Zachary: Yeah.

[00:10:53] Claire: So did you get singing [00:10:55] lessons?

[00:10:56] Zachary: Uh, not until college. Wow. Okay. Yeah. [00:11:00] So, um, in high school, no. And, and I first went to college, [00:11:05] um, for, I was going to be a band director and I went for [00:11:10] percussion music education and I lasted one semester [00:11:15] and then I switched my major to theater with a piano minor and Uh, [00:11:20] then I ended up transferring out of that school to another school and I got my bachelor's in musical [00:11:25] theater, eventually.

[00:11:27] Zachary: Yeah. Um, but it was not until [00:11:30] school, you know, um, post high school. I think I was 20 when I had my first voice [00:11:35] lesson. And, and the teacher said, well, you're never going to be an opera singer, [00:11:40] but let's, uh, train classically a little bit so you can learn some fundamentals. And of course she [00:11:45] said, you'll never do this.

[00:11:45] Zachary: So then I had to do it. [00:11:50] Um, but when I transferred, I was at Florida state [00:11:55] university, and then I transferred to Ithaca college in upstate New York. And that's where I found my voice teacher who has been my [00:12:00] voice teacher for 22 years now. We've been together a [00:12:05] very long time and And I would not do what I do without her and [00:12:10] her wisdom, guidance, support.

[00:12:12] Zachary: She's also a Feldenkrais practitioner. So the body work we've [00:12:15] incorporated in all of our training together really, you know, [00:12:20] is life changing.

[00:12:23] Claire: Did you go through other teachers first and then [00:12:25] find her?

[00:12:25] Zachary: Uh, you know, when I graduated, I moved to New York City and I tried like every teacher that everyone [00:12:30] was like, you have to study with this person, blah, blah, blah.

[00:12:32] Zachary: And I wasted all my money and then went back to my teacher [00:12:35] and she said, you know, come visit for a week. Let's undo all the damage and get [00:12:40] you back on track. Yeah.

[00:12:42] Oren: Yeah, I don't think that's a waste of money though, actually. [00:12:45] No, it's not. It's such a valuable learning experience. And I would encourage my students [00:12:50] to, don't stick with me, go and explore other perspectives because you'll find, [00:12:55] you might find something that works better for you.

[00:12:57] Oren: You might realize that actually you like [00:13:00] what I do. And I think that's a really important self discovery Moment, [00:13:05] which it seems like you had as well

[00:13:06] Zachary: for sure. Yeah, it was really [00:13:10] important And I think the greatest message I got from every teacher I went [00:13:15] to in New York was they didn't understand my voice and didn't know what I was and my [00:13:20] range and all these different colors that I was capable of producing and they were really [00:13:25] trying to You know find my box to put me in like you are [00:13:30] a lyric baritone, a bass baritone, a bass, whatever.

[00:13:33] Zachary: And they couldn't. [00:13:35] And, you know, of course, cause I was 23, you know, it's like a low [00:13:40] voice doesn't mature until mid thirties, you know, no one knew what to do with [00:13:45] me. Um, and that was good. And I think, [00:13:50] um, musical theater And auditioning for musical theater where [00:13:55] a lot of times they don't care what you call yourself They care what you look like and can you [00:14:00] phonate this role, you know, yes Yes, it helped me to break out of that [00:14:05] box People were trying to put me in in the classical world So

[00:14:09] Oren: I was gonna say [00:14:10] yeah, how do you manage that jumping between musical theater and

[00:14:13] Zachary: opera?

[00:14:13] Zachary: Oh, I love it I love it [00:14:15] so much. I mean I kind of think of it as all the same thing. It's just storytelling music and [00:14:20] And this is controversial, but I believe acting is important in opera. And [00:14:25] I know, I know, I know. Where do you get these crazy notions? I [00:14:30] know, I know, I know. Um, but yeah, I kind of do the same thing everywhere.

[00:14:34] Zachary: [00:14:35] Um, and it's, I really enjoy that. And I also do a lot of contemporary opera, which [00:14:40] is, uh, a little more similar to musical theatre than, you know, [00:14:45] Verdi and Mozart and such. But I think, I think, A lot of the same rules apply [00:14:50] everywhere, and I like to push those boundaries. Yeah.

[00:14:54] Claire: Yeah. I [00:14:55] really, gosh, I'm resonating with a lot of your story, um, having classical [00:15:00] background training and then also wanting to be in musical theater.

[00:15:03] Claire: And I [00:15:05] remember a conversation with my teacher about, it seemed to me that there was a [00:15:10] huge push from everybody to go, which one are you going to do? Yeah.

[00:15:14] Background: Yeah. Yeah. Are

[00:15:14] Claire: you going [00:15:15] to do classical or are you going to do musical theatre? And I couldn't make that decision [00:15:20] and I spoke to him and he was like, you know, I have to.

[00:15:22] Claire: He was fantastic. He said, my career is going [00:15:25] from one to the other. He said, it kind of goes in five year waves and we just, but [00:15:30] we have to make sure that your larynx can get round all of it, you know, [00:15:35] and if you can put the two of those together and understand the differences in the styles, why could the one [00:15:40] instrument not do the other?

[00:15:42] Zachary: So many things. Yeah. Limitless. Yeah. Yeah. [00:15:45] Absolutely. Flexibility.

[00:15:46] Claire: Yeah. But I do think that Confuses people a bit. [00:15:50] It does. Did you find that?

[00:15:51] Zachary: Yes, absolutely. Yeah. A lot of people were very confused. But, [00:15:55] you know, I think we try to define things, to understand them. [00:16:00] And as humans, it's just what we do. And I understand why it [00:16:05] was happening so much.

[00:16:05] Zachary: But, yeah. Yeah, I appreciate this time we're in now where it is more [00:16:10] acceptable to cross genre, and even celebrated.

[00:16:13] Background: Yeah.

[00:16:13] Zachary: Um, my first agent in New [00:16:15] York said, you know, you have to take all this opera off your resume, no one's going to understand. And it was like [00:16:20] then Baz Luhrmann was doing La Boheme on Broadway, you know?

[00:16:22] Zachary: Yeah, yeah. He's like, you know. Yeah, [00:16:25] yeah. Y'all are not thinking big.

[00:16:26] Claire: Yeah. This [00:16:30] episode is sponsored by Vocality, a specially formulated blend of tea for professional [00:16:35] voice users. Each ingredient has been carefully selected to help you soothe and [00:16:40] take care of your voice. The tea is naturally caffeine free, suitable for vegans, and does [00:16:45] not contain any artificial flavours or colours.

[00:16:47] Claire: Vocality is the secret to [00:16:50] vocal clarity in a cup. So, um, you come out of college and [00:16:55] what happens first?

[00:16:56] Zachary: Well, I briefly went to [00:17:00] University of Tennessee pursuing a master's in opera [00:17:05] performance. I left. [00:17:10] I moved to New York and, um, because I, I got this musical theater training. I didn't [00:17:15] have classical opera training.

[00:17:16] Zachary: It was just my voice kind of worked in that direction. And people were starting to pick [00:17:20] me up for operatic opportunities. And so I thought, well, I should [00:17:25] really pursue this. This seems cool. And, and the, um, [00:17:30] The research nerd part of me, like, loved learning about all the composers and the [00:17:35] styles and the, you know, there's just so much to learn.

[00:17:37] Zachary: And, um, but yeah, [00:17:40] I just really wasn't happy there because [00:17:45] there was no focus on acting and movement and dance and all these things that I loved so much that were really the [00:17:50] foundation of what I do on stage. you know, the goal being like to not think about [00:17:55] singing when you're on stage and just ride the wave and I was finding that wasn't really [00:18:00] happening in this opera training.

[00:18:02] Zachary: So I moved to New York and [00:18:05] I was in New York with I had like four different side hustle [00:18:10] jobs trying to just You know, survive. And a friend [00:18:15] of mine who was actually in Tennessee, who I was studying with there, [00:18:20] he had been in a Broadway show with this team, [00:18:25] and they called him and said, Hey, you know, do you want to come be in this show?

[00:18:28] Zachary: We need a bass. [00:18:30] And he said, No, I've moved on with my life. But, um, he called me. and said, Hey, you [00:18:35] should audition for these people. So I banged down the door and was told no several times. [00:18:40] And, but finally, uh, got in the room and I got my first Broadway show, uh, six months after [00:18:45] moving to New York, which was really cool.

[00:18:47] Zachary: Yeah, it was a show called Quorum Boy, which premiered [00:18:50] here at the National and was a hit. And we ran for three weeks in New York and [00:18:55] shut down. It didn't go well. Oh no, why? Uh, no one [00:19:00] came. Okay, that'll do it. That'll do it. That'll really do it. [00:19:05] Yeah.

[00:19:06] Claire: Too obscure a story, do you think? I think,

[00:19:08] Zachary: yes. Yeah. Just the [00:19:10] title had no impact.

[00:19:10] Zachary: No one knew what it meant. Yeah. Um, we were at one of the Imperial Theater on [00:19:15] Broadway, which is one of the biggest. It's where Les Mis, you know, premiered in New York. And it's like, why are we doing [00:19:20] this weird play in this enormous theater? Yeah, but it was a beautiful [00:19:25] production. It was stunning. And I also got to watch some of the best actors I've [00:19:30] ever seen in my life work every day.

[00:19:31] Zachary: And that was invaluable training.

[00:19:33] Oren: Yeah. Yeah. [00:19:35] Yeah, we see this a lot actually of people that are just starting their careers. [00:19:40] And, you know, Everybody has said that the first production that they've done where they're [00:19:45] working with actors that they admire It is literally just

[00:19:48] Zachary: absorb. [00:19:50] Yep Everything

[00:19:51] Oren: which is it's what you can't teach.

[00:19:53] Zachary: Yeah, exactly. Yeah. [00:19:55] Yeah and seeing how how people do eight shows a [00:20:00] week and kind of shift in their performance constantly to keep it [00:20:05] alive and they're always listening harder and um, yeah, that [00:20:10] was really, really cool to witness. Just think like, oh, this is how pros did it, you know, [00:20:15] they're not, they're not just replicating the same performance every day and slowly [00:20:20] drifting away from their soul, you know, which is easy to do.

[00:20:24] Zachary: [00:20:25] Yeah, digging deeper.

[00:20:26] Claire: Yeah. Finding more. Yeah. How was it to [00:20:30] close after three weeks?

[00:20:30] Zachary: Devastating. Mm-Hmm. . Yeah. It was devastating. Um, and. [00:20:35] You know, because I was like, wow, I've made it. I got a Broadway show my first year [00:20:40] here. But the really cool thing that happened though was I, um, got my actor's [00:20:45] equity, uh, membership from that show.

[00:20:47] Zachary: Because if you're on Broadway, you have to be an actor's equity. [00:20:50] And once you have that You have to be seen if you want to be [00:20:55] for every Broadway show, right? So it's like an open door to audition for Broadway shows whenever they're [00:21:00] holding auditions, which they have to publish those audition notices. So I just went to every [00:21:05] audition I could and then I got my second show, South Pacific, from an open call audition [00:21:10] because I had that Equity membership.

[00:21:12] Zachary: So my third show came from the [00:21:15] second show. You know, it's the same casting director. So yeah, yeah, it just, it's really cool. [00:21:20]

[00:21:20] Claire: And were you still doing pieces of opera amongst these or?

[00:21:24] Zachary: I was [00:21:25] doing the occasional reading and workshop, uh, you know, composers in New York, always [00:21:30] doing, uh, workshops and readings, developmental labs of their new pieces.

[00:21:34] Zachary: Um, but also [00:21:35] on the side, cause I did get a little bored doing eight shows a week into my [00:21:40] second year of writing. Um, because I, I just had the eight, eight bar, [00:21:45] nothing like a Dame solo, the little one. I was like, I need to do a little more than this. [00:21:50] So, so I started, uh, producing my own works. I put up [00:21:55] a, I made kind of like a solo pastiche opera.[00:22:00]

[00:22:00] Zachary: Assembled from many different composers things that told a story and I had like [00:22:05] shadow puppets and all this weird stuff. It was very yeah, it was a lot and [00:22:10] And I found this warehouse theater in Hell's Kitchen that for [00:22:15] some reason was just like Dirt cheap rent. Um, it was like the last [00:22:20] remaining, you know, venue in New York that was like the New York of the 80s and like [00:22:25] the Andy Warhol in New York that you dream of as a kid, you're like, I'm gonna go there and make cool things.[00:22:30]

[00:22:30] Zachary: Um, so I found this little venue and I produced a lot there. It started with my own stuff [00:22:35] and then I would call a composer friend and some singer friends and be like, let's make an opera [00:22:40] about, you know, whatever. Um, I found this cool script. Let's turn it into an opera. And we were doing these [00:22:45] really, really weird things in this warehouse, but, and there were rats and pigeons [00:22:50] in the space with us.

[00:22:51] Zachary: And there was a guy who worked there, but also slept there. [00:22:55] Um, it was wild, but like some of my favorite memories. I was going to say, it

[00:22:59] Claire: sounds [00:23:00] absolutely fantastic. It was fabulous. Yeah.

[00:23:02] Zachary: Yeah. And we're all still friends too. And we all talk about [00:23:05] it all the time. Like, remember when we were doing that cool stuff?

[00:23:06] Zachary: And like, Now everyone is trying to do that cool stuff. [00:23:10] Yeah. Yeah. Yeah,

[00:23:11] Claire: but maybe it's that much harder to do that cool stuff [00:23:15] Now, do you think

[00:23:15] Zachary: well, yeah, it is harder. I mean We were doing it with no money, right? [00:23:20] And now it's like, every company is like, We want to do this great, wonderful new opera. [00:23:25] We only need to raise 20 million dollars.

[00:23:26] Zachary: Right, right, yeah. Yeah, I [00:23:30] mean, I find money becomes a unnecessary obstacle in art making, often, right? [00:23:35] So, yeah, some of my favorite experiences are things I've made with no budget [00:23:40] at all. Yeah, it's just about the people and the right people showing up and being there for the passion of [00:23:45] it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah

[00:23:46] Oren: I think that's really important.

[00:23:47] Oren: Yeah, I I remember [00:23:50] this Atrocious short film that I made on no budget Like [00:23:55] literally no budget. I had to beg this this actor to come and work on it [00:24:00] with us um And It is [00:24:05] currently still sat on an old VHS tape, half [00:24:10] edited, because I looked at it and I was like, I can't, I can't put this anywhere because it's [00:24:15] absolutely trash.

[00:24:17] Oren: But. I am still friends with all of the [00:24:20] people that we worked on and it's just you, you do, you build those relationships.

[00:24:24] Zachary: I [00:24:25] think you should, you should pull it back out. Yeah, for sure.

[00:24:28] Oren: Where am I even going to get a VHS? [00:24:30]

[00:24:31] Zachary: There's technology out there. Yeah, but you might, you might find a great [00:24:35] film in the edit.

[00:24:36] Oren: It was, um, Oh, you don't want to know what it's about. I mean, [00:24:40] we absolutely do now. It was a really awful [00:24:45] Star Wars parody. But we had, we had these [00:24:50] lightsabers and I painted one of these lightsabers. I mean, it was just like this [00:24:55] awful color and we painted it green so that we could green screen behind it and [00:25:00] make it glow a little bit.

[00:25:01] Oren: And I mean, we were really in the editing at this point. So, yeah. [00:25:05] But it was one of those cheap toys so that every time you, uh, you swung [00:25:10] it, it just bent. And it just ends up becoming a whip. [00:25:15] Everyone wants to see

[00:25:17] Zachary: that though. Yeah, that [00:25:20] needs to be Right. Available. I'll find it. I'll edit it. [00:25:25]

[00:25:25] Oren: Maybe we'll cut it in.

[00:25:26] Oren: Yeah. [00:25:30] Was any of your early works filmed? Because that people would definitely want

[00:25:34] Zachary: [00:25:35] to see. I don't know. It was like, [00:25:40] right when everyone was starting to get smartphones, so we didn't really [00:25:45] have, you know. That easy documentation. I remember we had to be like, we [00:25:50] have to find a videographer so we can capture this.

[00:25:53] Zachary: And it was like, you know, [00:25:55] now you don't necessarily have to do that if you just want to archival, you know, [00:26:00] but, uh, I'm sure there's something out there that's embarrassing and awful, you know, [00:26:05] yeah.

[00:26:09] Zachary: [00:26:10] Shadow puppets. I mean, that sounds quite cool. It was cool, it was cool. [00:26:15] I remember I did that piece one time at Birdland Jazz Club in New York, which is like an [00:26:20] incredibly famous jazz venue. And after the venue, the producer was like, well, [00:26:25] definitely never had shadow puppets. Good. [00:26:30]

[00:26:32] Claire: But that sounds so reminiscent of, you know, Of [00:26:35] you as a boy going out and sourcing all your own costumes and doing the research and everything.

[00:26:39] Claire: It [00:26:40] sounds like that was a drive that stayed with you. Yeah,

[00:26:42] Zachary: for sure. Yeah, it's, it's, [00:26:45] yeah, what, what wakes me up in the morning. It's like, Ooh, let's make something. [00:26:50] Yeah. I'm making a potentially atrocious film right now, [00:26:55] myself, so. About Star Wars? It's not about [00:27:00] Star Wars. I've always wanted to do a thriller and like a noir esque type thing, so [00:27:05] I've just been obsessed with this thing I'm making that I've [00:27:10] said will be a feature length film.

[00:27:12] Zachary: Okay.

[00:27:14] Claire: How do you [00:27:15] manage that around performing eight shows a week?

[00:27:17] Zachary: Honestly, it's the stuff I do on the [00:27:20] side that kind of keeps me going. I've learned I need to have a lot going on [00:27:25] to not get bored. Bored, you know? Yeah. Does it

[00:27:29] Oren: ever get too [00:27:30] much?

[00:27:31] Zachary: Uh, it used to. In my [00:27:35] twenties, yes. I didn't know how to balance it.

[00:27:37] Zachary: But, um, I took a break. [00:27:40] Um, I put all the, all the, all the, producing and all of that aside for a little [00:27:45] bit. And that was good. And it took a few years and then I thought, Ooh, I'm really itching to do that [00:27:50] again. But I looked back on my experiences and thought, okay, what worked, what didn't work, what [00:27:55] support do you need and learning?

[00:27:56] Zachary: You can't do everything yourself. And learning, [00:28:00] I think one of the, the most valuable lessons is, [00:28:05] uh, learning that in collaboration, Oftentimes you don't have the [00:28:10] best idea and if the forum is open, the best idea rises to the surface and [00:28:15] you never know who in the room has the best idea. So if everyone is equal in the collaborative [00:28:20] process, it's, it's really can be quite magical to see what is [00:28:25] assembled in, you know, between you.

[00:28:29] Zachary: [00:28:30] That can be really cool because something is born from a collective brain that otherwise would [00:28:35] never be. I really love that. Yeah. It takes a lot of

[00:28:38] Claire: trust though.

[00:28:39] Zachary: Yeah, [00:28:40] yeah.

[00:28:41] Claire: Because there is a lack of, well Obviously there's a lack of [00:28:45] control with that. So you don't know where the morning is going to take you.

[00:28:47] Claire: It's true.

[00:28:49] Zachary: I mean, I have to [00:28:50] say, so I've worked with Phelan McDermott a lot, the director. Um, we've done a lot of Philip Glass [00:28:55] works together. We did a Broadway show together. Um, we've been working together since, I want to [00:29:00] say like 2009, and he has been such a mentor for me in watching his [00:29:05] process and how he surrenders control.

[00:29:07] Zachary: Um, and I remember one of the first moments, uh, [00:29:10] actor came up to him and was like, what do I do in this moment? And he was like, Well, how would I know, [00:29:15] you know, and he would say like, I'm the director, I am [00:29:20] here and keep time and provide space for all of us to [00:29:25] create.

[00:29:26] Claire: It's incredibly refreshing. Yeah. Yeah.[00:29:30]

[00:29:30] Zachary: And I just thought, well, yeah, that's so obvious. Why aren't we doing that [00:29:35] everywhere? Yeah. Yeah.

[00:29:36] Claire: Yeah. Do you find that is happening [00:29:40] elsewhere or?

[00:29:40] Zachary: Occasionally. Yeah, it's hard. I mean, that was a big struggle of mine in, in trying [00:29:45] to dip into traditional opera, which my agent eventually was like, you, you know, you're doing a lot of contemporary [00:29:50] opera.

[00:29:50] Zachary: We got to do Wagner, Verdi, Mozart, everything else to, you know, let [00:29:55] people know you do that too. And I was like, okay, sure. And then I found myself in these In these [00:30:00] places where it was like stand here and on this word raise your right arm and look this way and I was like [00:30:05] I am going to combust like I need [00:30:10] freedom and I need to have trust also and I also need to [00:30:15] Explore in my process in rehearsal and a lot of times it [00:30:20] means like finding out what I won't be doing You know, yeah.

[00:30:24] Claire: Yeah [00:30:25]

[00:30:25] Zachary: Yeah,

[00:30:26] Claire: absolutely experiment full on your face. Go whoa, [00:30:30] that one doesn't work.

[00:30:30] Zachary: Yeah. Well, even in Hadestown, there was a day where we were in [00:30:35] this moment and they were like, yeah, you really just face out to the audience the whole time here. And I was like, [00:30:40] totally cool. I need a few days to like, know what's going on behind me.

[00:30:43] Zachary: So I'm going to face upstage because [00:30:45] once we're on stage, I'll never see these people again. And I need to know what's happening up here. What's everyone [00:30:50] feeling. So I just want to like look at people in the eye and connect with them and understand. this moment [00:30:55] better and and having that freedom really helped and and [00:31:00] now I know what's happening up there because it's weird you get on stage and it's like wow there's going to be [00:31:05] things I'll never see again or have never seen in rehearsal and and [00:31:10] that's that you know.

[00:31:11] Claire: I'm always surprised by what a long period of time can go [00:31:15] between a performer Being able to have a show watch. And just be able to step out. And [00:31:20] now obviously they're needed on stage, but to have that perspective on it, to be able to stand back [00:31:25] and go, Oh, this is our show. Wow. Not just my show, but this, this is our show.

[00:31:28] Claire: Yeah.

[00:31:29] Zachary: Yeah.

[00:31:29] Claire: Very [00:31:30] different. Yeah. You know, um,

[00:31:31] Zachary: when I was doing South Pacific on Broadway, I was, I put in my [00:31:35] notice and I was going to leave and then they offered me a show watch, which was very smart. I [00:31:40] watched and I went backstage. I was weeping afterwards and just everyone I saw in the hall, I was [00:31:45] like, this

[00:31:45] Background: is

[00:31:45] Zachary: amazing.

[00:31:46] Zachary: And I rescinded my notice immediately. It's [00:31:50] like, this is so special. I'm not leaving. I can't.

[00:31:52] Claire: Wow, that was some really good management. Yeah. [00:31:55] Yeah Big tick to whoever that was Incredible. [00:32:00] How long were you at South Pacific?

[00:32:02] Zachary: I was there for I think a [00:32:05] year and seven months or so a year and a half Basically, yeah Yeah, it was [00:32:10] supposed to be a limited run.

[00:32:10] Zachary: We were supposed to run for three months and then It just was [00:32:15] such a success. It won eight tonies and it ran for like four years [00:32:20] Yeah,

[00:32:20] Oren: how's that coming off of a three week? Oh, it was

[00:32:24] Zachary: yeah, it [00:32:25] was phenomenal. It was it was To this day, I've not been a part of something that was so [00:32:30] celebrated. And, and people said at that time, like, this is really rare.

[00:32:34] Zachary: A lot of people [00:32:35] never have this experience. And I was like, Oh yeah, sure. You know, I'm 26, you know, [00:32:40] um, but it's true. Yeah, that's true. I've never been in [00:32:45] anything that was that celebrated. Since, yeah, and it's rare for a lot of [00:32:50] people, it doesn't happen, you know, yeah.

[00:32:52] Claire: It's hard to have any perspective on what you're [00:32:55] experiencing in your twenties.

[00:32:56] Claire: Like nothing to measure anything [00:33:00] against and every experience is something new. Yeah.

[00:33:02] Zachary: Yep. But you look back and you're like, wow. [00:33:05] That was, That was pretty cool. Yeah. And still, you know, doing that, looking back on last year and like,

[00:33:09] Background: [00:33:10] oh,

[00:33:10] Zachary: that was cool. I liked that. You know? And in the moment, you're like, oh, God, this [00:33:15] thing I'm doing, this is horrible.

[00:33:17] Zachary: I'm in whatever city that I don't want to be in. And then you [00:33:20] look back and you're like, that was pretty amazing.

[00:33:23] Claire: I was going to ask you about travel because you [00:33:25] have literally been all over the world.

[00:33:26] Zachary: Yeah, yeah.

[00:33:27] Claire: How do you find that? Oh, it's

[00:33:29] Zachary: [00:33:30] amazing. I mean, it's one of my favorite parts about the job is to, I love travel.

[00:33:34] Zachary: [00:33:35] And, yeah, to see the world and, and do this has been such a gift, like where [00:33:40] I'm from, you know, a lot of people don't leave and, um, like my parents don't [00:33:45] have passports, you know, and, and rarely leave Florida. [00:33:50] And it's kind of very wild [00:33:55] that I've done what I've done and been where I've been coming from where I'm from.[00:34:00]

[00:34:00] Claire: Have they been to see you?

[00:34:02] Zachary: Yeah, uh, not out of the [00:34:05] country. Um, but yeah, they've been to New York. They've been to, you know, lots of places. [00:34:10] Yeah, they don't, um, they don't travel a lot. But so they don't make everything [00:34:15] like, you know, which is hard sometimes because I'm at, I'm in shows with people whose parents come to every single [00:34:20] thing.

[00:34:20] Zachary: And it's just like, it's not because they don't want to be there. It's just like limitations. Yeah. [00:34:25] Yeah. So. But very supportive and always have been, you know, my mom texts me [00:34:30] still before. Like she rarely misses a performance, even with eight a week, [00:34:35] she texted me before and like, have a wonderful day today.

[00:34:37] Zachary: You're a star. You know, I'm your biggest [00:34:40] fan. Thanks mom. Yeah.

[00:34:44] Claire: Oh, from [00:34:45] one mama to another. Well done mama. She's amazing. Oh, bless. [00:34:50] It's lovely. You seem very. Centered thanks. [00:34:55] Very comfortable in, in your own space, but that's very different to where we started this story. Yeah,

[00:34:59] Zachary: [00:35:00] for sure.

[00:35:00] Claire: When do you think that.

[00:35:02] Claire: started to come together and what do you think caused it?

[00:35:04] Zachary: Uh, [00:35:05] honestly, so late 20s, I got sober [00:35:10] and so I'm like almost 13 years sober now. And that's definitely an enormous part of finding myself [00:35:15] and finding my center, finding my feet on the ground and struggling with some [00:35:20] tough stuff and working out, you know, all the trauma [00:35:25] we build up over our lives and, and having to really face that and [00:35:30] also take responsibility for my own life.

[00:35:34] Zachary: [00:35:35] Actions and choices and yeah, it was a huge, huge part of my journey. Can I

[00:35:38] Claire: ask what propelled [00:35:40] you to make that change?

[00:35:41] Zachary: I was a wild kid in New York in my 20s [00:35:45] and drinking too much. Yeah, it wasn't, it just was [00:35:50] like way too much and uh, And I think also within that, like, it went from, like, [00:35:55] having fun and being crazy and wild time to, like, I'm doing this because I [00:36:00] don't like to feel, and there's, like, pain that I don't like to feel, so we're just, like, [00:36:05] getting rid of it.

[00:36:06] Zachary: Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, I went to therapy and, um, [00:36:10] talked to a lot of people, and, and I have, uh, a small group of friends, but [00:36:15] we've all been friends for like 20 plus years now. So having people in your life that [00:36:20] know you through many chapters has really been amazing for me. [00:36:25] Um, just to let someone else know you in that way and, and to know them and [00:36:30] kind of like have this reflection of yourselves against each other to see your [00:36:35] growth and the full journey.

[00:36:36] Zachary: You know, because you're meeting new people all the time, every show. It's like, here's my [00:36:40] new community. Hi, who do I want to be? How am I presenting myself? You know, and I try to be open [00:36:45] and real and everything, but it's like, you really only get a surface level of who someone is when you're working with them for a [00:36:50] month, right?

[00:36:51] Zachary: Yes. Yeah. Yes. And, yeah. You know, you think you're gonna be best friends [00:36:55] for life and you never talk again, you know, yeah Yeah, I've

[00:36:58] Claire: thought a lot about that over [00:37:00] the years working in doing my own Performing work, but then working with performers [00:37:05] and being, you know, really intimately acquainted with somebody especially doing the job I do I've talked about [00:37:10] this before I'm, you know in somebody's trailer and they're getting changed or whatever, you know, [00:37:15] and And then it would just disappear And that is a very weird thing as a [00:37:20] human.

[00:37:20] Claire: You're like, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. We had a relationship going here, but actually I've come to realize [00:37:25] we did have a relationship going here. It's just very different to what you're describing with [00:37:30] the long term friends who see you through everything. Just as valuable.

[00:37:33] Zachary: Yeah. And [00:37:35] it doesn't mean it wasn't special and it wasn't intimate.

[00:37:37] Zachary: It's just like, it was for [00:37:40] a moment. Mini relationship. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:37:43] Claire: So did. [00:37:45] Were you doing stage work during this wild and crazy time? Oh yeah, yeah. How did [00:37:50] you manage that? I don't know. You

[00:37:53] Zachary: know, there's things you can do when you're [00:37:55] younger that you can't do later.[00:38:00]

[00:38:00] Zachary: And I was also around a lot of people who were kind of in the same lifestyle. [00:38:05] It feels normal, you know, when you surround yourself with people who are doing [00:38:10] the same thing as you, no matter how destructive it is. Um, but yeah, I, I wasn't, [00:38:15] uh, I wasn't present. [00:38:20] Yeah.

[00:38:21] Claire: Did that make it hard to stop then that,

[00:38:24] Zachary: you know, I, [00:38:25] I'm grateful it wasn't hard to stop actually, cause I was so tired and I was like, [00:38:30] I can't do this anymore.

[00:38:31] Zachary: You know, And I, yeah, fell in with [00:38:35] some, some people that picked me up off the ground, you know. Yeah. Amazing. Yeah. [00:38:40] Yeah.

[00:38:41] Claire: It's a wonderful thing.

[00:38:42] Zachary: Yeah. No, it's great. I mean, it's honestly like I look at [00:38:45] everything I've done since then. I'm like, I wouldn't be doing any of this if I didn't, if I didn't. [00:38:50] Yeah. Make that change.

[00:38:50] Zachary: Yes. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:38:51] Claire: I mean, yeah. Or did some fabulous research and [00:38:55] you know, we were looking at your website and things I. one thing I had to comment on [00:39:00] is Broadway World's vocalist and performer, not of the year,

[00:39:03] Zachary: of the decade. [00:39:05] Listen,

[00:39:07] Claire: that's quite a thing to

[00:39:09] Zachary: be [00:39:10] given. Yeah. You know, yeah, it's cool. [00:39:15] It was, uh, during the pandemic when everyone was at home, [00:39:20] Broadway World decided like, let's do an awards for like 2010 through 2020.

[00:39:24] Zachary: And [00:39:25] so, yeah, it was, it was pretty cool.

[00:39:26] Claire: It's very cool, and it's also very cool for somebody who is, who is [00:39:30] stretching themselves across genres. I, I think that's really cool.

[00:39:33] Zachary: Yeah, and I, I'm [00:39:35] at peace with not being in one genre now. I love hopping around. Yeah. Doing TV and [00:39:40] film, doing musical theatre, doing opera, whatever comes next, yeah.

[00:39:44] Zachary: Yeah. [00:39:45]

[00:39:45] Claire: Do you find there are big differences between the different genres? [00:39:50]

[00:39:50] Zachary: There can be. Um, I mean, certainly on camera stuff [00:39:55] is quite different. Yeah. Yeah. Um, you really have to tailor your [00:40:00] performance down to almost nothing sometimes. Um, but, uh, [00:40:05] but also, you know, I did an opera at the Met in New York where we're, [00:40:10] um, live stream to movie theaters around the world.

[00:40:14] Zachary: And so [00:40:15] that's an on camera acting gig suddenly in a 5, 000 seat theater, right? So it's like, I'm kind of [00:40:20] thinking about both at the same time, like how do I reach that back row, but how do I also make sure that [00:40:25] my, when my face is taking up an entire movie screen, I'm like active and alive in [00:40:30] a way that's appropriate for that as well.

[00:40:33] Claire: How did you find that?

[00:40:34] Zachary: Well, it's [00:40:35] about behind the eyes, always on camera. I think it's like having, [00:40:40] um, Having a lot of thoughts behind your eyes, having, um, [00:40:45] really clear, specific choices about environment, [00:40:50] atmosphere, relationship, um, and knowing where you're going, but [00:40:55] staying like ultra present and not, you know, getting there up here before you're, yeah.[00:41:00]

[00:41:02] Zachary: Yeah,

[00:41:03] Claire: but those are really good questions. [00:41:05] Mantras for, for theater performance. For sure. For

[00:41:08] Zachary: sure. Yeah. That's what we strive [00:41:10] for. Sometimes it doesn't always happen, you know, but yeah, it's [00:41:15] in theater. There, there are little places to hide occasionally. It's like, Oh, I [00:41:20] turn upstage. This is when I cough, you know?

[00:41:22] Zachary: Yeah. This is when I [00:41:25] shut down for five seconds to reset my equilibrium. Yeah. You know, that's nice. [00:41:30] It's like, yeah. Yeah, like in Hadestown, I run to my dressing room, um, my first break I get is [00:41:35] like three minutes, and I go to my dressing room, which is mad. There's no reason to go. [00:41:40] I'm just like, ah, okay. And then I go back in.

[00:41:43] Zachary: Yeah, yeah, [00:41:45] yeah. Yeah, because it's just like a safe, lovely place of just me, no spotlights, [00:41:50] no thousand people, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I need that. Yeah.

[00:41:53] Background: Yeah.

[00:41:54] Oren: I think it's really [00:41:55] important to take those moments. Yeah. For the survival of, of not just yourself, [00:42:00] but the role and taking, taking that time out to just.[00:42:05]

[00:42:06] Oren: It's intense out there. It is, it is. Relentless. [00:42:10]

[00:42:10] Zachary: Yeah, interval I always lay down on the floor in my dressing room for a [00:42:15] half hour. Always. Very set in my routine. And I go to yoga [00:42:20] almost every day, which is life changing. A recent discovery. Yay! [00:42:25] Yeah, it's my new favorite thing. And really keeps me together.

[00:42:29] Zachary: So

[00:42:29] Claire: do you [00:42:30] find that's good with your voice?

[00:42:31] Zachary: Yeah. Really good. Um, it's [00:42:35] uh, just the awareness of [00:42:40] your whole body, you know? Mm-Hmm. , I'm very much like a full body singer. It's like I need [00:42:45] to know that this entire thing is activated, not [00:42:50] just.

[00:42:50] Background: Yeah.

[00:42:51] Oren: Yeah. We'll get back to the episode in just a minute, but I just wanted to [00:42:55] quickly say that 75 percent of you are not subscribed to this channel.

[00:42:59] Oren: So if you [00:43:00] could, hit that subscribe button, like this video, and ding the bell for notifications so you never [00:43:05] miss an episode in the future. You did um, I'm gonna butcher, completely [00:43:10] butcher, Arknarton. Arknarton. Arknarton,

[00:43:13] Zachary: yeah. Yeah.

[00:43:14] Oren: Let's [00:43:15] talk about this for a second. Yeah, let's go. Because that was. Fully spoken word, right?

[00:43:18] Oren: Yeah. Yeah, [00:43:20] but I but in watching it It still felt and again, this [00:43:25] might come back to you, you know performing from the entire body It still felt as if you were [00:43:30] singing but you were speaking. Yeah I want to know absolutely I

[00:43:34] Zachary: worked [00:43:35] with my voice teacher on that. Um, I mean we've i've been doing that production for Eight years [00:43:40] now off and on and we've we've you know gone through every word of that [00:43:45] in many ways, but um, So the first time I did it was here at English National [00:43:50] Opera in 2016 I got the call to do it a week before they were starting [00:43:55] rehearsal and it's 6, 000 words and of course in opera you're supposed to show it memorized and [00:44:00] everything and I had actually very little experience speaking on stage.

[00:44:04] Zachary: It [00:44:05] was Like Gilbert and Sullivan was the most speaking I had done. And so I was a [00:44:10] little freaked out and um, So that first time we did it [00:44:15] was just like, survive and get it on its feet. And I didn't know I [00:44:20] was going to do it again, but then six months later, I was at LA Opera. Uh, then we were at [00:44:25] the Met twice, back to English National Opera two times.

[00:44:28] Zachary: We're doing it, uh, next year and the year [00:44:30] after in other cities. Um, so it's been really cool to have [00:44:35] this piece that over time I get to grow and develop and track my own [00:44:40] progress in my vocal production. Because it's really, it is quite, operatic in the in [00:44:45] the production and it is full body and it's Like you [00:44:50] cannot be up here at all or you're gonna die You know, like just [00:44:55] you're done.

[00:44:55] Zachary: Yeah, because you have to fill you know, a 5 000 seat theater With [00:45:00] over a huge orchestra, you know, and sometimes it's like there's 14 trombones [00:45:05] right now and like around the same frequency as my mid range voice like How am I gonna [00:45:10] cut? And then my teacher's like, wow, the singer's four minutes. There's a fit and I'm like, okay, okay, but like [00:45:15] So, [00:45:20] yeah, but it's it's been amazing it's been absolutely amazing that production it's my [00:45:25] favorite thing I've ever done It's the most I've learned about myself.

[00:45:28] Zachary: It's the most responsibility I've ever [00:45:30] been given on stage out there for like Two hours and [00:45:35] 45 minutes out of the three hours that it is. It's a lot. Yeah, and [00:45:40] by the end you've really, you really have given everything. You're like, I'm, I have nothing [00:45:45] left. I'm a carcass, you know. Yeah, yeah, because the physicality of it is, um, [00:45:50] It's a Phelan McDermott production and the movement vocabulary of it is all based in [00:45:55] Michael Chekhov movement techniques.

[00:45:56] Zachary: So, uh, floating, flying, molding, [00:46:00] radiating. And so molding is like this slow movement resisting through space. And that's [00:46:05] what we do for three hours. And your body's just like, yeah. [00:46:10] I'm done now. It is

[00:46:12] Oren: a spectacular thing to watch. [00:46:15] I can't remember the exact scene, but there was a part where you were centre and [00:46:20] you had people around you and you were on the floor.

[00:46:23] Oren: Juggling. And your hand movements [00:46:25] was, I mean, it was incredible. [00:46:30] But How do you find that? Restrictive freedom I'm gonna call it because [00:46:35] it I guess it's prescribed you have to do it in that way Do you not have to do it in that way?

[00:46:38] Zachary: No, you're free with it. [00:46:40] Yeah.

[00:46:40] Oren: Okay fine

[00:46:41] Zachary: I'm free with it and always have been but it was all like born out of [00:46:45] improv Exercises, so I kind of made it myself.

[00:46:48] Zachary: That's really cool. And yeah, [00:46:50]

[00:46:50] Oren: that's really cool I thought it would be much more prescribed is nothing. It's nothing [00:46:55] at all

[00:46:55] Zachary: Yeah, how's that been amazing? Yeah. Yeah. It's amazing. I mean, [00:47:00] uh, that being said I was in the first production, right? So like I I was in all those exercises [00:47:05] and built the show Now when we do it with new casts, it is prescribed to them, right?[00:47:10]

[00:47:10] Zachary: And I watch and then I go and i'm like, hey, so, you know, this is actually improv. So like you're allowed [00:47:15] to do You know, and then we find relationship. Yeah. Yeah, it's [00:47:20] really It's really fun. But yeah, that's what it is working with phalem. It's like [00:47:25] Do whatever, see what happens, you know, [00:47:30] and sometimes he wants you to do things that are so blatantly, [00:47:35] obviously, like not what you're going to do, you know, like doing a monologue from that show and [00:47:40] like being, you know, laughing, being joyful the whole time, but your son has just died, but it's like, then [00:47:45] you find things.

[00:47:45] Oren: Yes. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's, that's really important as well. Yeah. The more [00:47:50] we explore, the more we find out and. I guess a, you know, a lot of young [00:47:55] people might go, well, that, that's not How it should be

[00:47:58] Zachary: right?

[00:47:59] Oren: But [00:48:00] that's that's sort of the point. That's the point Because you only find how it should be once you've explored what [00:48:05] it shouldn't be or couldn't be.

[00:48:07] Oren: Yep Um, so yeah, it's really cool that you get to [00:48:10] play with that.

[00:48:10] Zachary: Yeah. Oh, it's great Yeah, and he has he uses emotion cards also So you'll be in [00:48:15] rehearsal and out of nowhere He comes up with those emotion cards and he's just like flying through them and you're going through [00:48:20] 30 different emotions in one minute It's fun.

[00:48:22] Zachary: I'm in love. Yeah. Yeah [00:48:25] Honestly He's really amazing. Changed my life. [00:48:30]

[00:48:30] Claire: And has that come through into other shows that you do now? Do you bring it all [00:48:35] the time? Yeah.

[00:48:36] Zachary: Yeah. All the time. Um, especially in those moments where you just [00:48:40] don't know what to do, or there hasn't been time to address it with the director, or maybe [00:48:45] you've been left to your own devices.

[00:48:46] Zachary: I, I recall all those tools are just part [00:48:50] of my process. Now I use it in auditions. You know, I use it everywhere. Yeah.

[00:48:54] Claire: You mentioned [00:48:55] auditions. Yeah. Can you jump on that? Sure. Tell us how you get through auditions.

[00:48:58] Zachary: I like them. [00:49:00] Yeah, I really do. Um, I actually, you're not

[00:49:02] Claire: the first person to say that. Yeah, I know.

[00:49:04] Claire: [00:49:05] Yeah.

[00:49:05] Zachary: I, in a way, I miss the, in-person, [00:49:10] audition, hustle, um, pre pandemic. But I also really like self [00:49:15] tapes because. I learn a lot from watching myself and [00:49:20] if I do, you know, 10 different takes and I'm like, Oh, you do the same thing in this moment. You have this habit, whatever, [00:49:25] then you address it and you have to, you know, and I wasn't doing any of that work before the pandemic and, [00:49:30] and how we self tape all the time now.

[00:49:31] Zachary: So I do really enjoy it. [00:49:35] Um, I especially enjoy doing TV film self tape auditions. That's, [00:49:40] you know, it feels right because you're, Mm. You know, doing an on-camera show for an [00:49:45] on-camera gig. The right medium. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, singing, it's a [00:49:50] little tricky sometimes. Yeah. On, on your iPhone, um, you know, in the right [00:49:55] environment.

[00:49:55] Zachary: And sometimes they send a track and you have like one ear pod in, you're like, trying to, it's a lot. [00:50:00] It's a lot. But I, I, I do really like auditioning. I like, um. [00:50:05] Going into the room with a creative team and meeting them and I [00:50:10] love, you know, working. Was that always the case? Yeah. Yeah. [00:50:15] Yeah. I loved it. It always felt like, [00:50:20] like, Oh, this is my little show.

[00:50:22] Zachary: And you have, you're my captive audience. Yeah. [00:50:25] You get to decide when it's over, but like I'm here and.

[00:50:28] Oren: That's a nice perspective. That's a gorgeous [00:50:30] perspective.

[00:50:32] Zachary: It's fun. But it's like almost [00:50:35] you're in control of a lot in that moment, you know A lot of times you're deciding what to sing what to wear [00:50:40] you know How you're retooling your resume to be specific to the job [00:50:45] You know, there's a lot in it.

[00:50:46] Zachary: That is a fun little game Yeah I

[00:50:49] Oren: think it [00:50:50] is actually really nice to to sort of play with it in gamify in that way because [00:50:55] It's probably it's a little bit different for when you're going for a job, but especially like drama school auditions You [00:51:00] It does feel very much like you're being [00:51:05] Well, you are being auditioned, but it should be a two way thing.

[00:51:08] Oren: Like you've got to now work with these people [00:51:10] exactly and if you Don't feel like you can work with those [00:51:15] people then you're going to have a terrible time in your course and your job or whatever So playing with it like that, I think is [00:51:20] really really nice because it just lightens it enough That the [00:51:25] stakes are You I don't want to say the stakes are lowered so much, but, you know, it just [00:51:30] reframes it, which is, I think, a really nice perspective.

[00:51:33] Oren: Oh

[00:51:33] Zachary: yeah. Yeah, whatever [00:51:35] audition heartbreaks I've had were something I really wanted and I didn't get. If I, if I'm really honest with myself and I [00:51:40] look back on the audition experience and I think about the people in the room, and how it was to receive their [00:51:45] energy and how we worked together, I'm like, no, it wasn't a fit.

[00:51:48] Zachary: Right. Like, you didn't want to work with them. They [00:51:50] didn't want to work with you. Move on. Yeah. You know. doesn't matter. Yeah, [00:51:55] but you have to be honest with yourself. And that's hard sometimes when you want to wallow in the self pity of [00:52:00] like, but I wanted that role. Yeah, it was mine. [00:52:05] But it wasn't, you know, wasn't for you.

[00:52:07] Zachary: Yeah.

[00:52:09] Claire: Have you had long [00:52:10] periods between gigs?

[00:52:12] Zachary: Not really just the pandemic. Yeah. Yeah. And even [00:52:15] then I stayed quite busy. But yeah, I've been quite fortunate. I've been kind of like, [00:52:20] Where

[00:52:21] Claire: were you for the pandemic?

[00:52:22] Zachary: A lot of the time was spent in Philadelphia and I set up a [00:52:25] little makeshift studio and I was doing a lot of recording and filming.

[00:52:29] Zachary: [00:52:30] And, um, I was actually called on by the opera industry on several occasions to make [00:52:35] content because we all became content creators. Um, and I guess they [00:52:40] enjoyed my content. So it was suddenly like, will you make us a video about this? Will you host these [00:52:45] online? this online gala, will you, whatever. And, and I started doing all of that stuff all [00:52:50] the time, which was interesting.

[00:52:52] Zachary: Direct acknowledgement from this industry that [00:52:55] didn't know what to do with me, that I'm good at being on camera and like being [00:53:00] charismatic and holding space. Yeah.

[00:53:03] Claire: Yeah, so a little moment of, [00:53:05] see, you didn't know what to do with me, but I'm useful now, right? Here I am. Yeah.

[00:53:08] Zachary: I'm seeing your gala [00:53:10] for the company I've never worked for.

[00:53:11] Zachary: [00:53:15] Yeah, but amazing. Great. Yeah. And I had a, I had a [00:53:20] weekly talk show, um, out of Dallas Opera. They created a streaming network [00:53:25] and suddenly I had like this talk show every Friday that, you know, it's really [00:53:30] for like a year and a half. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. And I did stuff for [00:53:35] Chicago Opera Theater, Opera America, like everybody was just like, Hey, do this and this and [00:53:40] this.

[00:53:40] Zachary: So yeah, it was good though. It helped me pay my rent during that time. Yeah. [00:53:45] Which I didn't know how to do otherwise at that moment. It was tough.

[00:53:49] Oren: [00:53:50] Yeah.

[00:53:50] Claire: And what did you come out of the pandemic to do? What was your first stage moment? [00:53:55] Oh

[00:53:55] Zachary: God, it was, I got to play Don Quixote in Men [00:54:00] of La Mancha. Yes.

[00:54:01] Oren: Yes. I freaking loved it.[00:54:05]

[00:54:05] Oren: I I have a sweet spot for this for this piece and I watched I [00:54:10] think it was a 20 minute 21 minute Oh god thing that you had on it's on your website. Yeah. Yeah

[00:54:14] Zachary: Yeah, [00:54:15] um, but that's a long watch [00:54:20] Stunning thank you. It is. Yeah It was so much fun.

[00:54:23] Oren: It looked fun.

[00:54:24] Zachary: Yeah. And it [00:54:25] was in a giant amphitheater out under the stars and you could hear frogs and crickets and there were [00:54:30] just so many moments in that show where the text coming out of my mouth was so just like, Oh God, [00:54:35] life and what we've been through and being in front of an audience for the first time.

[00:54:39] Zachary: And I was [00:54:40] just weeping, you know, all the time and it felt so good. And it was also [00:54:45] a moment where. I was playing a good guy which rarely happens [00:54:50] so it was really nice and it was kind of this thing where I was like wow this is the closest I've [00:54:55] ever felt to a character like this guy is me and um and there was a Cervantes [00:55:00] quote I found um you know he was saying like he and Don Quixote were one and the same there [00:55:05] was no difference between them they live in each other and I was like yeah.[00:55:10]

[00:55:10] Zachary: Then I had a spooky dream where Cervantes came to me. That was weird. [00:55:15] What? What'd he say? Well, I was really freaking out about the role and [00:55:20] it had been two years since I'd been on stage and all this stuff. And I was like, ah, I'm going to be terrible. Maybe I can't [00:55:25] sing anymore, et cetera, et cetera. And so I'm in my bed in the housing and, you know, [00:55:30] You know, he appears at the end of my bed and he's laughing, laughing, and he's like, Out of [00:55:35] everyone in the world, I've chosen you.

[00:55:37] Zachary: I was like, Okay, Servantes. [00:55:40] You know, yeah, it was really weird. Yeah. And I called my voice teacher in the morning and she was [00:55:45] like, So are you gonna, you know, accept that you're doing this now and go for it? And I was like, Yeah, let's do it. [00:55:50] It's phenomenal. Yeah, it was weird. It was really weird. Fantastic [00:55:55] training.

[00:55:55] Zachary: I know.

[00:55:55] Claire: You. Brain properly taking you in hand. Hey there. Yeah. Yeah. You

[00:55:59] Zachary: [00:56:00] have to do this. Yeah. Figure it out.

[00:56:02] Claire: It's actually really refreshing to hear you say you, [00:56:05] you had that moment of anxiety about it. Is that, is that the only moment you've had [00:56:10] in your career?

[00:56:10] Zachary: Always. Yeah? Every show. Yeah. Why? Imposter [00:56:15] syndrome.

[00:56:15] Zachary: Every artist, right? Interesting. Yeah. Yeah. I think it's just like, [00:56:20] part of every artist's process, whether they talk about it or not. And then you have [00:56:25] to figure out for yourself, like, is this sustainable or not? And [00:56:30] how much of it is, uh, like self abuse in my process? And [00:56:35] when do I need to release this? But there's always that voice of like, oh, you know, Hadestown, [00:56:40] Patrick Page, you know, those are huge shoes.

[00:56:43] Zachary: And I do it very, very [00:56:45] differently. And, and the idea of Of [00:56:50] knowing what the fans expect and then doing something really different. It was scary and I was just like, [00:56:55] ah, what if I'm not the one for this? What if this is like a terrible mistake? You know? Yeah. [00:57:00] Yeah. Do you

[00:57:00] Oren: know what though? I, I came, I when I saw it.[00:57:05]

[00:57:05] Oren: 'cause obviously you do, you go in with the expectations of what you know. I [00:57:10] don't think I remember messaging you straight after I saw it being like, yeah, okay. [00:57:15] This is everything that I want from this Oh, but also your voice was just [00:57:20] Perfect. Thank you. I think yeah, but but again, you know, it comes back to You [00:57:25] play with it.

[00:57:25] Oren: You make it yours. You experiment. Yeah, and People [00:57:30] will learn That you can't just carbon copy from one thing to the other and you know, [00:57:35] this is theater It it moves it changes and it has to and What you [00:57:40] have done with it Tells The same [00:57:45] story but gives us perspective new perspective on the character, right [00:57:50] Which I think is really really nice because then you start to get [00:57:55] these layers from all the different things that you've watched [00:58:00] Yeah, I just think it's special that's what makes good theater.

[00:58:03] Oren: Mm hmm. Thank

[00:58:04] Zachary: you.

[00:58:04] Oren: I really [00:58:05] appreciate that.

[00:58:05] Zachary: Yeah, it was the goal I wanted them to be You know, to have some humanity [00:58:10] and wanted people to root for him and not see him as a bad guy. Which you do. [00:58:15] Yeah. Thanks. Like you go in wanting to hate this character, you're like, why are you doing this? Oh, I know, [00:58:20] I know.

[00:58:21] Zachary: And I walk

[00:58:21] Oren: out of it and I'm like, I love it. Yeah,

[00:58:24] Zachary: no, I feel [00:58:25] it because, you know, the top of every show, all the characters are introduced and everyone cheers and it gets to Hades and they're like, [00:58:30] This guy. I'll win him over by the end. Yeah, yeah, [00:58:35] yeah. Yeah, but they hate me going into it. I've said this a few times, but I thought of him as like, [00:58:40] uh, a wounded little boy who's been given the keys to a kingdom he doesn't want and [00:58:45] has all this power and responsibility.

[00:58:47] Zachary: And, um, People see him a certain [00:58:50] way, so he just becomes that. He's like, fine, if you don't see me for who I really am, I'll just be what you [00:58:55] think I am. You know, which I think is fun.

[00:58:57] Claire: You have an extraordinary [00:59:00] presence on stage. I mean, like, you haven't opened your mouth yet, and we, we [00:59:05] are interested, and we want to know.

[00:59:06] Claire: And also, you are, [00:59:10] um, there's a magneticism to you standing there. Have you [00:59:15] been aware of that a long time? Is that crafted or? [00:59:20]

[00:59:20] Zachary: I think I became aware of it as something that [00:59:25] is an actual thing [00:59:30] that can be spoken about, um, kind of the way we say like the magic of theater, [00:59:35] right? But what it really is, is we're transferring energy between the [00:59:40] audience and the stage and then our heartbeats sync and then there's like actual science and [00:59:45] math to it.

[00:59:45] Zachary: And I think presence is the same way. It's like, you can turn it on, you [00:59:50] can intensify it, you can turn up the volume, and then you know when to turn it down because it's someone else's turn, [00:59:55] you know? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. But, um, yeah, it's definitely something, [01:00:00] um, I'm aware of and access. Um, but I've also learned that even [01:00:05] at times where I think I'm terrible and that I have no presence, I [01:00:10] do.

[01:00:10] Zachary: Still, it's still there, you know? Yeah. So it's like breathing, it's [01:00:15] involuntary, you know? Yeah. Yeah. You can be aware of your breath and, and use it [01:00:20] to your advantage, but even if you're not, you're still breathing.

[01:00:24] Claire: Do you think that was [01:00:25] there in that very first show? [01:00:30] Literally back at school? Oh, God. Okay.

[01:00:32] Claire: Maybe.[01:00:35]

[01:00:36] Zachary: Yeah, maybe. Um.

[01:00:38] Oren: Gotta get those tapes out. That's all I'm [01:00:40] saying. No, you know,

[01:00:41] Zachary: it was there when I was a child. Oh, God. in piano [01:00:45] recitals. Yeah, so I think it's always been there because people people would speak about [01:00:50] it and It would also I would notice like I would walk out to play And the room went suddenly quiet [01:00:55] whereas like it was, you know, not a focused room When other people would come out I was like, [01:01:00] this is different.

[01:01:00] Zachary: What's happening here? Am I a witch? [01:01:05]

[01:01:05] Claire: If so, what can I do?

[01:01:08] Zachary: But there was this one time, uh, actually [01:01:10] really profound moment in my early performing days on piano where I just [01:01:15] went up and I was like, I have no idea. My fingers don't know what to do next. And there's nothing. [01:01:20] And I was just like silent. And the whole room was silent.

[01:01:23] Zachary: And like a [01:01:25] long time went by like over a minute You know, and everyone was [01:01:30] just silent. Nobody said anything. And then I just started over and I made it all the way through but I [01:01:35] think I was like nine, you know Yeah playing Chopin and I was [01:01:40] like But yeah, there's something about that or like no one [01:01:45] Came to rescue me.

[01:01:46] Zachary: Everyone was just like

[01:01:48] Claire: Yeah. I wonder if [01:01:50] you just Some sort of weird presence thing. Yeah. Yeah. Gave off a Yeah. No, this is going to be okay. Yeah. Just sit with me. [01:01:55] Because audiences get anxious. They do. Especially

[01:01:57] Zachary: when children are making mistakes.

[01:01:59] Oren: What a great learning [01:02:00] experience as well. That was cool.

[01:02:01] Oren: But it

[01:02:01] Zachary: still haunts me where I'm like, you don't know your lines. [01:02:05] Yeah. You're going to mess up. How is it possible that you know all these? That's not, you know, [01:02:10] like I question, like, how, how is it possible? How does my brain know all of these [01:02:15] things? And, and that they're going to come down that road, especially not five [01:02:20] minutes before a performance.

[01:02:21] Zachary: No, that's

[01:02:21] Claire: not. [01:02:25] Speaking of five minutes before a performance. Yeah. We are called the five minute call. Yeah. [01:02:30] Can we ask you what you do at the five minute call?

[01:02:31] Zachary: Uh, I do a little prayer. every [01:02:35] show. You can call it a prayer or whatever, um, but I ask for trust in [01:02:40] my body, my tongue, my hands, my feet. Um, help me to be of [01:02:45] service to this show, to this audience, to this character, to my colleagues.

[01:02:49] Zachary: [01:02:50] Um, Help us all to find each other and open our hearts and [01:02:55] receive the hearts of the audience. And then I get a little witchy and I say, you know, spirits of [01:03:00] this place, if you want to perform with me. You know, cause like, you know, Laurence Olivier's been on that [01:03:05] stage. I'm just like, hey everybody, ghosts of the theater.

[01:03:07] Zachary: Come along if you want. [01:03:10] Yeah, but just, that's more like acknowledging the, how [01:03:15] sacred a space it is and how many people have been there. Um, so yeah, that's my little routine. [01:03:20] And if I do that, I'm like, good to go.

[01:03:22] Claire: That is absolutely beautiful. We were just talking [01:03:25] about theater spaces. To me, they feel like cathedrals, but, [01:03:30] and I'm not religious, but I also feel it.

[01:03:32] Claire: In cathedrals and religious spaces [01:03:35] spaces there is something about the fact that so many souls have been in that space Oh, yeah,

[01:03:39] Zachary: you can feel it

[01:03:39] Claire: and [01:03:40] exchanged energy

[01:03:41] Zachary: and you can feel it in the audience, too Yes. Yeah.

[01:03:43] Claire: Yeah, absolutely.

[01:03:44] Zachary: Yeah, that's [01:03:45] some of my favorite moments in in tech rehearsal I go out in the audience when I can and I sit there and it's like [01:03:50] It's a wild feeling to be amongst these empty seats that have been filled for hundreds of years [01:03:55] and to know, you know, they'll be filled soon with with [01:04:00] strangers who you'll have a brief relationship with.

[01:04:02] Zachary: Yeah. Yeah. It's cool. [01:04:05] Yeah. There's a lot going on in theaters. Yeah. Spooky. Oh, it's magical. [01:04:10] It's magic. It's proper. My hair's on the back

[01:04:12] Claire: of my neck. Well,

[01:04:14] Zachary: we don't really know [01:04:15] anything about anything. Who's to say Laurence Olivier isn't wandering those halls. Right. [01:04:20] Yeah. Yeah. I mean, sure. Past, present, future.

[01:04:23] Zachary: Exactly. I was gonna say. [01:04:25] Technically he was. We know nothing. Yeah.

[01:04:27] Oren: So we have one final little thing [01:04:30] for you. Yes. So every episode we asked the previous guest to write a [01:04:35] question for the next guest that goes completely unseen until this moment. I love that. [01:04:40] If there were no boundaries with roles, what would be your dream role in [01:04:45] what show and why?

[01:04:47] Zachary: That's tough. Cause I always say like a new piece, [01:04:50] like my dream role is like a brand new thing, you know? Um, [01:04:55] but I might have to go with like Mama Rose and Gypsy. [01:05:00] If we're going there with this question. Yeah. Come on. [01:05:05] Like, is there a better role? It's amazing. Yeah. [01:05:10] Yeah. Yeah.

[01:05:12] Oren: I need to see that now. Yeah.

[01:05:13] Zachary: Yeah, let's do it. Yeah. [01:05:15] I mean, it's just, it's a fabulous role and a fabulous show [01:05:20] too. Um, and reading the, you know, the history behind those real life [01:05:25] people is like mad. Yeah. Yeah. [01:05:30] Well,

[01:05:31] Claire: I look forward to seeing it. Yeah. We've put that out there now. Yeah, yeah, [01:05:35] yeah.

[01:05:36] Oren: Somebody needs to make this happen. I don't know.

[01:05:38] Oren: I don't [01:05:40] know. Yeah. I love it. I love it. Wow.

[01:05:42] Claire: Thank you so much for sharing your story [01:05:45] and your time with us today.

[01:05:46] Zachary: Yeah.

[01:05:46] Oren: Thanks for having me. Yeah, this has been so [01:05:50] special. Genuinely, thank you for your time. It's amazing. We really hope you enjoyed this episode of The 5 [01:05:55] Minute Call. Don't forget to hit that subscribe button, like this video and ring the bell for [01:06:00] notifications.

[01:06:00] Oren: Your support really helps us bring you more amazing stories.

[01:06:03] Claire: If you are or have been [01:06:05] affected by any of the topics discussed in today's episode, please see the show notes below for some helpful [01:06:10] resources.


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